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Revision Is Where You Meet The Creative Gods: Kim Frank

Stuart Horwitz speaks to writer, photographer, and documentary maker, Kim Frank about the years-long process of writing Elephants in the Hourglass: A Journey of Reckoning and Hope Along the Himalaya, published by Pegasus Books earlier this year. Frank shares what kept her motivated throughout, her commitment to authenticity during the sometimes challenging promotion phase of authorship, and why she so ardently believes in the importance of refusing to rush through revision–or any part of the creative process. 

 

 

S: How long did you work on this book? From the moment you got the idea to the time you held a copy in your hand. 

K: I went to India for the first time in the spring of 2018, and soon realized I couldn’t possibly tell the whole story from just one trip. It’s so complicated, so culturally imbued. I wasn’t sure what the project was going to be then. I thought it might be a magazine article, or maybe a documentary, perhaps a book. That’s when Anthony Geffen, the founder and CEO of Atlantic Productions, took a look at my stuff. I had photographs and field notes spread out on his kitchen table. He told me, “You need to write the book in order to figure out what the story is–then you can consider a documentary.” 

I was a fiction writer so I didn’t really know how to tackle a full-length nonfiction book. At first, I was in despair. As you know, because that’s when you and I talked. The first time I ever had a call with you, I was about ready to give up. And you stopped me from giving up, so thank you for that. Around the same time Anthony, who had become a mentor to me, said something that I’ve carried with me since: “Kim! Sometimes you have to fight for the story!” And so that’s what I did. I thought about the people I met in India. The people who gave me their trust there, their time, their story, in the hopes that I would amplify their voices and make them feel seen in a way they haven’t before now. And then there’s the people who invested on the home front–my husband, my children, my parents–all those who gave me the time and space to write. It was all of them who helped me not give up over the years of working on this project. I felt this incredible responsibility to finish because I wasn’t just by myself anymore. Six years later, in January 2025, I held a copy of the book in my hands for the first time. 

S: Let’s talk about promotion. How do you make it authentic, and how do you keep yourself fresh when you’re answering the same questions over and over?

K: The more time I’ve spent working on this project in India and beyond, I’ve come to really believe there’s a force bigger than me at play. I’m a vessel. I’m just doing my part: the storytelling, the authenticity. As long as I stay connected to the elephants’ energy, to the thing that’s bigger than me, all will be smooth. The way will open, whatever that’s meant to be. The challenge is the more you have to promote your work and promote yourself, there’s this real danger of the ego becoming bigger. “Oh, I didn’t get invited to speak at that event. What’s that about?” “Oh, that person’s book is getting more attention than mine.” This growing ego feeling is very different from the connected channel I had been able to tap into when I’m focused on the creative piece of it. 

But I do love talking to people who get it. I really love doing interviews. I especially love when people have an open mind and heart that can talk about the more ethereal bits involved in the creative process. I really have enjoyed talking to people like you that I care about, that have helped me along the way. Second to that, I like doing talks because I feel like I’m able to connect with people and I’m able to bring the story to life through myself. There are parts of promotion that I am actually having fun doing. 

S: I feel as if your commitment and perseverance is a talent. Without that personality trait, as a writer, you’re cooked, really. You’ve got to be somebody who can say, “This is what I’m doing; I don’t know whether it’s going to be a success or not. I don’t know how many years it’s going to take. I don’t know whether you agree with me or not…but this is what I’m doing.” 

K: I’d love to speak to that from a craft perspective. I often hear writers say, “I’m a one-and-done. I wrote that draft to the end and it’s good enough.” For me, and what I want to teach others, the art is in the revision. Revision is where you meet the creative gods. You have to get the whole thing on paper first, and then the work begins. Then, the art begins. It’s like a sculpture. You have this great big mass and you have a vision for what you want that hunk to look like and through revision, revision, revision, all the shaping, all the detail comes out. So if you’re not in love with the process, you won’t finish the work the way it needs to be finished. If you’re in a hurry to get to the end, the end is going to feel really hollow. 

People say to me, “You must be so excited to have your book in your hands!” And yeah, I’m thrilled to be holding a physical book from a traditional publisher, that I had an agent for, all those things. But if I rushed through writing the book in the hurry to get an agent or to get it published, I would have missed out on the growth of myself as a creative human. People on the outside would ask me, “Isn’t it good enough now? Why do you have to keep writing it?” Because it wasn’t done. It’s a process. It has to nourish you. It can be frustrating as hell sometimes, but the process also has to nourish you or else what are we doing? 

S: It is frustrating and there are so many unknowns, the biggest being: is it going to reach this hard to define level of success we carry somewhere in our minds? 

K: And you can’t control that. You just have to get out of your own way. If we grip too hard to something we want, sometimes we block the path for what’s possible. Right now with promotion, I know I need to be doing all these things. I need to be promoting the hell out of the book. People have to be doing the Amazon reviews and all the things, but there’s also part of me that thinks it will seek its own level somehow. I want to be more focused on: Who am I every day? I can’t become preoccupied with how successful the book is or isn’t… In my opinion, if the book has made a difference in someone’s life or if it inspired them in some meaningful way, that’s a win to me. 

It’s very easy to get out of balance. I’ve done a lot of work to deepen my practice: my yoga practice, my mantras, my spiritual connection, and build the tools necessary to take it on the road, so to speak. When I’m at home, it’s easy to have that balance. But when I’m out traveling things begin to feel overwhelming. So I’m recognizing that exercise–for me, yoga and what yoga means as far as its spiritual practice–is as important as hygiene, and I need to constantly prioritize it as such. You never question, no matter where you are, if you’re still going to bathe and brush your teeth. I haven’t yet mastered incorporating those elements into my daily hygiene to where I prioritize it on the road as well as I can prioritize it when I’m at home, but that’s the goal. 

Clients Crushin’ It: Dr. Surendra Chawla

Madison Utley speaks to Dr. Surendra Chawla following the release of his book, When Persistence and Providence Joined Hands: One Cardiac Surgeon’s Journey. The powerful memoir tells the story of how the boy forced to flee the massacres surrounding the partition of India and Pakistan became the man who built a world-class cardiac facility as a prominent heart surgeon in the United States.  

 

MU: Talk to me about the motivation for writing your memoir. When did you realize this was something you wanted to do?

SC: I have always had the habit of keeping detailed records. I wasn’t sure why I was doing this, other than to keep in touch with the memories. When I joined my first hospital, a lot of information came out of that. I kept my operation notes from every single surgery I did. This was before email or computers, so boxes and boxes got filled with paper. When we moved from one house to another the question became, “What are you going to do with all of this?” Much of the material was handwritten and hard to decipher, but I didn’t want to let it go. When I retired in 2018, I transferred many of these handwritten notes into the computer. So I opened the boxes, I put them in sequential order, and I copied over everything that I could. It was in that process that the story started to take shape. 

MU: What led you to seek editorial help with the process, and what do you feel like was gained from looping Stuart in? 

SC: A friend of mine, Curtis Robinson, told me he was writing a book and that Stuart was helping him. Getting that recommendation was the best thing that could have happened. I could not believe how organized Stuart was in conducting the process of working together. He steered me from writing a biography which could have been dry and confusing with all of the details and names to writing a more streamlined memoir. He knew what was best for the material, and we were in sync with each other. In fact, he was one step ahead of me. In my definition, a close friend is someone who when I start a sentence, they finish it. Stuart was one of those. Again, him getting involved was the best thing that could have happened. 

MU: What have you gotten out of writing this book? What kind of reader responses have you gotten thus far?

SC: I got the satisfaction that all my boxes were cleared out. Now all that has been moved into the computer and made it into the book will be saved for my children and grandchildren to look through, pictures and all, forever and ever. So there’s satisfaction that the job is completed. It is all true narrative. Every part of the story has been authenticated. No one can challenge a single page without me having a copy of the records. 

One physician’s assistant in the hospital read my book. He said, “I read up to where your mother is giving you the lessons about life. I’m stuck there because I want to accomplish everything she said to you before I go to the next chapter.” That was so emotional for me. All of the feedback has been so positive so far. So I never planned to write this story, but I enjoyed every part of it and I am satisfied with the final product.

MU: Do you have any advice you’d like to share with other professionals who don’t have creative or long-form writing experience, but feel strongly about wanting to tell their story?

SC: People have been asking me how I wrote my book. Stuart’s name will be there every time, that he’s the person who helped me, that while I did gather the material myself, someone helped me put it into readable form. If Stuart wasn’t involved, this book would not have happened. 

Sarika (Dr. Chawla’s daughter): If I can interject; I’m a writer by trade, so it would have made sense for me to help my father write his life story. He’s got everything ready to go. Why wouldn’t I be the person to do this for him? Yet, I don’t recommend that family members really do that. For some, it could work, but there’s so much information, so much detail. It’s hard to see the forest for the trees when you’re dealing with a family member. His life story before I existed is not attached to who I am and what I know of him, so having a third party who is completely objective, who doesn’t know us at all, come in and see his story holistically was really meaningful and very powerful. It gave a great perspective. Stuart absolutely nailed my father’s voice. You can hear him speaking when you read it. He did a much better job than any family member could do. That’s why I’d highly recommend looking outside your own circle.

Jessica Strawser & The Power Of Editing

 

There are three ways that you can learn about writing. You can go to school for it, which is actually a great way. Some people take reverse pride by boasting that they didn’t take that path, but you can learn a lot in school, believe it or not. Next up, you can read voraciously. That’s an incredible way to learn about writing, especially if you are conscious while doing so, thinking things like: That works. Why does that work? That doesn’t work. Why? And finally, the third way is to be edited, especially if you are wholly open to that experience. 

Recently, I hired Jessica Strawser to not only review the query letter and synopsis, but also the first 50 pages of my novel–and what an eye opening experience that was. Below, we talk about her career path to date and how her many experiences have contributed to her belief in–and her ability to wield–the power of editing. 

 

SH: Recently, I availed myself of your services to review the query letter and the synopsis for my novel as well as the opening pages — your “gut check” package. And it was, exactly that: a gut check. How did you come up with that name? Do you often see people whose work is not where they think it is (hence needing a gut check)?

JS: I named the package for the thing I always find myself wanting as a writer—when you’re ready to start putting your work out there, but you wish you had some reassurance (ideally from an objective, knowledgeable third party) that the work is as ready as you are. Pitching a book involves an entirely different skill set than writing a book, and it’s a shame how many writers will pour years into crafting a beautiful manuscript and then rush through drafting a query letter that doesn’t do it justice. That’s not to say every writer needs a professional query edit—plenty find success on their own—but for those who find it a struggle, or who are getting nothing but form rejections, hiring help can make good sense.

In various roles through my publishing career—from acquiring titles for niche imprints, to representing Writer’s Digest at writing conferences nationwide, to becoming a novelist in my own right—I’ve been in the unique position to review hundreds of submissions, and to understand what boxes they need to check from both sides of the desk. I can also attest that the hesitation over finally hitting “Send” never quite goes away. I really enjoy helping writers strengthen their submission materials and feel more confident about their next steps. The submission process can feel daunting, lonely, and long. In a world where no-response-often-means-no, I think sometimes writers find the “Gut Check” doubly appealing simply because it gives them interaction with a real human being who treats them with respect and makes the prospect of approaching other so-called gatekeepers seem less scary.

SH: How do you think an editor best comes by her abilities? What is the relative role of education, experience and talent? Am I missing anything there?

JS: Early in my career at Writer’s Digest, a woman at a conference raised her hand and asked me, “They say that those who can’t do, teach. Does that mean that those who can’t write, edit?” There was kind of a gasp in the room at the perceived rudeness of the question, but it opened my eyes to how misunderstood the role of editors can be. I think every editor has a different path, and I can’t speak to them all. I went to the top-ranked E.W. Scripps School of Journalism at Ohio University, where I majored in magazine journalism (which is certainly no longer a major, but in the 90s it was one of three tracks: newspaper, magazine, or broadcast). Most of our training was on how to communicate information clearly, effectively, creatively, and ethically. We were taught to write before we were taught to edit. And indeed, much of my editing education has been trial-by-fire, starting with lower-level roles that involved shadowing mentors, watching and learning. I have worked my way up through various roles, all the way to editorial director, having also been a staff writer, freelancer, and even marketing and public relations team member for a short while. It’s been an immersive education, and that includes my own fiction writing. Contrary to the “those who can’t do…” myth, I don’t coach writers on anything I have not achieved myself, many times over.

SH: I’m sure you have had some very positive experiences of being edited yourself, as this was for me. Are you able to take in what others have said so that you have a new understanding and new tools in the toolbox, or do you still always need an editor? Or both? 

JS: Every editor who I’ve worked with has taught me something new about editing. In my days as a staffer for both magazines and book imprints, I could have told you the pet peeves of every single one of my colleagues. I knew the kinds of things they’d mark up or flag as they read, and I’d almost make it a game to beat them to it. When I’d been the one to write the feature article they were red-lining, that involved learning not to get defensive and to open my mind to the possibility that they were right. Editors and writers are on the same team, and at our best, we make each other look good.

As a fiction writer, being edited is far more nuanced, but when I’m doing something that I know isn’t working quite the way I want it to, sometimes a former editor’s words will pop into my mind and serve as a guide. I’m grateful for them all.

SH: In our communications you have always been extremely humble, and I’m sure that also helps keep expectations of your clients manageable. But don’t you also have to go into an editing engagement with full confidence that you can really rock someone’s world? What is the balance there for you?

JS: I never want to overpromise. In fact, sometimes clients will come to me and say, “So-and-so recommended you! She says you’re a wizard!” and I want to temper their expectations. I’m definitely not a wizard, just someone who can lend a new perspective that I hope will help. I’m not the right match for every writer. I always ask to see their materials before I take them on; sometimes the subject matter is outside my wheelhouse, or the query letter is already in great shape and I tell them that I don’t think they need me and wish them luck. Also, the best pitch in the world won’t get you published if the manuscript isn’t strong enough to seal the deal.

Time and money are equally valuable assets to writers, and it bears repeating that plenty of resourceful, savvy writers succeed without ever hiring help at all. There are people out there who will prey on writers with big dreams and take advantage of them, so I’d caution all writers to be wary and discerning about who you entrust to assist you, especially if they’re making bold claims.  

Clients Crushin’ It: Tony Pesare

Madison Utley speaks to Tony Pesare following the December release of his second book, Back in the Game. The two discuss how “author” coexists with the many other hats Tony has worn and continues to wear–state trooper, police chief, university dean of justice, prosecutor, actor, writer–as well as what advice he has for other aspiring writers who aren’t quite sure they have the time.   

 

 

Q: Tony, talk to me about the motivation behind your disparate personal and professional pursuits. 

A: I’m very goal oriented. If I’m not working towards something, I feel like I’m not accomplishing anything. I also really like to try things without knowing whether I’m going to succeed at them. I’ve been acting for a while but it took a long time for me to now feel comfortable and confident on stage. I worked at learning Italian for two years and it just didn’t click. So I’ve had as many failures as I’ve had successes, but I like to be challenged. I like to stay engaged. 

Q: How did writing come into the picture? Was that always an interest, or was it just one of the many things you’ve tried out and then decided it resonated? 

A: I didn’t do much creative writing in school or anything. I spent 24 years on the state police. Most of my investigative experience over that time came when I was in the intelligence unit which focused on organized crime. We did investigations into the mafia. There was one case with three witnesses we had in protective custody that resulted in the conviction of a major member of organized crime–for a hit, which is rare. I said to myself at the time, “This should be a book.” 

I knew I had two avenues; I could’ve written it as true crime, but that would’ve taken a lot of strict research. I realized that if I did it as fiction instead, I could weave my personal story into it, my journey of growing up in a low income area of Providence and then getting to be a state trooper. That inspiration was my first foray into serious writing. 

When I shared with a friend I was writing a book, he told me that his daughter had written many books and she worked with a guy named Stuart Horwitz. I met with Stuart in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, and when he saw the big binder that contained my first draft he chuckled. He said, “I don’t usually get something this expansive to begin with.” We hit it off right away. I learned from him what the arc of a story should be, and that there should also be an arc within every character. We got the first book out, They Always Win, and it was really successful regionally. It was just a great experience. I knew that if I ever wrote another one, I was going to go back to Stuart. 

Q: So you’re talking here about your first book which came out over 10 years ago. Your second, Back in the Game, was published earlier this month. How was it to get back into long form writing after all that time? 

A: I was the chief of police in Middletown, Rhode Island for 14 years. During that time I took a break from writing and concentrated on my law enforcement career. Besides, the muse was just not coming to me. 

When I started putting this second book together, I was daunted by not having written in a while. My friend who I was talking about it with said, “Why don’t you try something? Promise yourself you’ll write at least one page a day.” So I did. I wrote one. One became ten. For some reason things clicked and it started to flow. I kept at it until it was where I thought it was finished and then that’s when I started working with Stu again. 

This time I spent much more time with him. We delved into many more areas of the work, and spent a lot of time going back and forth. He also connected me to a whole team, like 1106 Design, proofreaders, and beyond. I can’t overstate his helpfulness. 

Q: What would you say to those who have an interest in writing, but who also have entire careers in other spaces and aren’t sure they have it in them to write a full-length book?

A: One of the best books I ever read about writing was by Stephen King. In it he says that “writing is rewriting.” If you want to write, what you need to do is write and rewrite and rewrite. Get disciplined. Build that muscle memory. Then seek out someone who can guide you through the rest of the process, like Stuart. There are a lot of phonies out there so you have to make sure you’re dealing with somebody that’s reputable. If you find that person, that person that you can trust, work with them. 

I’d also say that self-publishing is a great vehicle for many, many people. If your dream is to publish a book, your dream can come true, it just takes a lot of hard work. 

Q: What’s next in the pipeline for you?

A: I’m now in the marketing and promotion stage with book two. That’s a lot of work. Last time, with my first book, I really enjoyed going to bookstores. That was my favorite thing. Reading a chapter or giving a little presentation about organized crime or writing and then signing books afterwards. So it’s hard work but there are really fun parts too.

I’ve also already started in on the third book of the series, which is great, but I’ve also been joking that I really just want to work with Stuart again. We truly do have a good time together.